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Jiddhu Krishnamurti (1895 - 1986)

RAJGHAT - 12TH TALK TO BOYS AND GIRLS - 23RD DECEMBER 1952

Is it not very important, while we are young, to be loved and to love? It seems to me that most of us neither love nor are loved. And I think it is essential, while we are young, to understand this problem very seriously; because, it may be that, while we are young, we can be sensitive enough to feel it, to know its quality, to know its perfume; and perhaps when we grow older, it will not be entirely destroyed. So, let us consider the question - that is, not that you should not be loved but that you should love. What does it mean? Is it an ideal? Is it something far away, unattainable? Or is it something that can be felt by each one at odd moments of the day? To feel it, to be aware, to know the quality of sympathy, the quality of understanding, to help naturally, to aid another without any motive, to be kind, to be generous, to have sympathy, to care for something, to care for a dog, to be sympathetic to the villager, to be generous to your friend, to be forgiving, is that what we mean by love? Or is love something in which there is no sense of resentment, something which is everlasting forgiveness? And is it not possible while we are young, to feel it? Most of us, while we are young, do feel it - a sense of outward agony, sympathy to the villager, to a dog, to those who are little. And should it not be constantly tended? Should you not always have some part of the day when you are helping another, or tending a tree or garden, or helping in the house or in the hostel, so that, as you grow into maturity, you will know what it is to be considerate naturally - not with an enforced considerateness, not with a considerateness that is merely a negative word for one's own happiness, but with that considerateness that is without motive. So, should you not, when you are young, know this quality of real affection? It cannot be brought into being, you have to have it; and those who are in charge of you, like your guardian, your parents, your teachers, must also have it. Most people have not got it. They are concerned with their achievements, with their longings, with their success, with their knowledge and with what they have done. They have built up their past into such colossal importance that it ultimately destroys them.

So, should you not, while you are young, know what it is to take care of the rooms, to care for a number of trees that you yourself dig and plant, so that there is a feeling, a subtle feeling of sympathy, of care, of generosity, the actual generosity - not the generosity of the mere mind - that means, you give to somebody the little that you may have? If that is not so, if you do not feel that while you are young, it will be very difficult to feel that when you are old. So, if you have that feeling of love, of generosity, of kindness, of gentleness, then perhaps you can awaken that in others. And that implies, does it not?, that sympathy and affection are not the result of fear. But, you see, it is very difficult to grow in this world without fear, without having some personal motive in action. The older generation have never thought about the problem of fear; or if they have thought about it abstractly, generally, they have never applied it actually in daily existence, they have never gone into the problem. If you who are still watching, growing, enquiring, if you do not know what causes fear, you will grow up like them; then, like the weed that is hidden, fear will grow and grow and multiply and twist your mind.

So, what is important is that you should be sensitive to things that are happening around you - how the teachers talk, how your parents behave and how you behave yourself - so that this question of fear is seen and understood.

You see, most grown-up people think that some kind of discipline is necessary. You know what discipline is? It is the process, the way of making you do something which you do not want to do, a way which you yourself have developed and through which therefore you want to achieve a result. Say, for instance, you are in the habit of smoking or chewing pan. What is the way to put an end to it? The way to put an end to the habit is generally called the disciplining of the mind to resist that particular action. That is, I smoke; what is the way of putting an end to it? Or, I chew pan, what is the way by which chewing pan may come to an end? The idea does exist that you must resist chewing pan or you must resist smoking. The resistance creates fear; and because you are afraid, you develop this process of resisting everything. Whereas, if you understood why you smoke, if you went into it, if you thought about it, if you talked about it, if you were aware of it or were helped to be conscious of it, you would see that by constantly watching it, you would not develop fear against this resistance. So discipline is not the way of love.

Where there is discipline, there is fear. And in a place like this, discipline at all costs should be avoided - discipline being coercion, resistance, persuasion, compulsion, the offering to you of a reward, or making you do something which you really do not understand. If you do not understand something, do not do it; do not be compelled to do it. Ask for an explanation, do not be obstinate, try to find out, so that your mind becomes very pliable, very subtle; so that there is no fear involved in it. But if you are compelled by grown-up people, by authority, by parents, then you suppress your mind, and fear comes into being; and that fear pursues you like your shadow throughout life. So, do not be disciplined to a particular type of thought or to a particular pattern of action. Older people can only think in those terms. They make you do something for your good. The very making you do something for your good destroys your sensitivity, your capacity to understand and therefore your love. All this is very difficult, because the world about us is so strong; we do things thoughtlessly and we fall into a habit; and then it is very difficult for us to break away from it.

Should you, in a place like this, have authority? Or should you go to your teachers, discuss these problems, go into them, understand them, so that as you grow up and leave this place, you do so as an intelligent human being who is capable of meet- ing the world's problems? You cannot have that intelligence if there is any kind of fear. Fear only makes you obstinate, fear curbs you, fear destroys that thing which we call sympathy, generosity, affection, love. So, be very careful not to be disciplined into a pattern of action; but find out - which means, you must have the time, and the teacher must have the time; if there is no time, then time must be made, because fear is more important than any examination or any degree, because fear is a source of corruption and is the beginning of degeneration.

Question: What is love in its own self?

Krishnamurti: What is intrinsic love? What do you mean? What is love without motive, without an incentive? Listen carefully, you will find out. We are examining the question but not to find out the answer. You know, in your studies in mathematics or in putting a question, most of you want an answer. You are mostly concerned with the answer, not with the problem. If you understand the problem, if you study it, look into it, examine it, analyse it, the answer is in the problem. So, we are going to find out what the answer is in understanding what the problem is, not in looking for an answer at the end of the book or looking for an answer in the Bhagvad Gita or in the Bible or in the Koran or in some sacred book or from some professor or lecturer. If we look at the problem, the answer will come out of it. A fruit cannot come into being without the tree; but what we do generally is to look for the fruit of the tree without understanding the whole structure of the tree, without understanding how the tree grows. The fruit is a part of the tree; they are not two separate things. Similarly, in the problem is the answer, the answer is not separate from the problem. Do not merely wait for an answer. The answers to your mathematical problems are in your personal effort, in your inquiry, in your search to understand the problems. In your looking at the problem, you will find out the right answer.

The problem now is: what is love without motive? Can there be love without any incentive, without taking something for oneself out of love? Can there be love in which there is no hurt, in which there is no sense of being wounded when love is not returned? Can there be love when you give and do not receive? When you give, are you not hurt when the person does not return? When I offer you my friendship, you turn away and then I am hurt; is that hurt the outcome of my friendship, the outcome of my generosity, the outcome of my sympathy? So, as long as there is hurt, as long as there is fear, as long as I am doing something in order to help you, in order that you may help me - which is called service - then you will see that the motive is not love. If you understand this, the answer is there.

Question: What is religion?

Krishnamurti: Do you want to find out an answer from me, or do you want to find out the truth of what religion is? Are you looking for an answer from somebody, however great, however stupid? Or, are you trying to find out the truth of what true religion is?

If you try to find out what true religion is, then what have you to do? You must push away everything. If I have many coloured windows, dirty windows, and I want to see the clear sunshine, if I want to know what real light is, I must clean the windows, or I must open the windows and go outside. Similarly, you want to find out what true religion is. Then you must find out what it is not. To find out or discover what it is not, you have to approach it in negation - that is, like opening the window. You must first find out what it is not and then put that aside, Then, you can find out; then you are in direct perception.

We are going to find out what true religion is; so let us find out first what it is not. Is ritual, puja, religion? You repeat over and over again a certain ritual, a certain mantra in front of an idol. It may give you a sense of pleasure, a sense of satisfaction; is that religion? Is putting on the sacred thread religion? Obviously, it cannot be. So, we have to find out whether calling yourself a Buddhist, a Christian, a Hindu, and accepting a certain tradition, dogma, ritual, is religion. Obviously it is not. So, religion must be something which can only be found when the mind has understood and put aside all this. Religion is not the outcome of separation, is it? You are a Mus- salman, I am a Christian, I believe in something, you do not believe in it. Your belief has nothing to do with religion as such. Whether you believe in God or I do not believe in God has nothing to do with it, because your belief is conditioned by your society, is it not? The society round you imprints your beliefs, your fears, and appeals to your mind to believe in certain things. The belief has nothing to do with religion. You believe in one way and I in another way, because I happen to be born in England, Russia or America. Belief is only the result of conditioning. Therefore, it has nothing to do with religion.

Is the pursuit of personal salvation religion? I want to be safe; I want to reach Nirvana or Moksha or salvation; I must find a place next to Jesus, next to Buddha, next to a particular God. Your religion is not a thing that gives me deep satisfaction, or comfort; so, I have my religion. Your mind must be free from all these things and then only will you find out what true religion is.

Is religion merely doing good or doing service or helping another? Or is it something more - which does not mean that we must not be generous or kind. But is that all? Is it something much greater, much cleaner, vaster, more expansive than any mere conception of the mind? To understand what is true religion, you must know all these things. It is like going out into the sunshine; then, I will not ask what is true religion; then, I will know; then there will be the direct experience of that which is true.

Question: Suppose somebody is unhappy and wants to become happy. Is it ambition?

Krishnamurti: Did you listen to what was being said before? You do not listen. If you knew how to listen really to what was being said, you would have found what is true religion immediately. It is like somebody saying to you, `Go and open the door, and you will know what is sunshine'. Sitting in the room and being lazy, you do not want to move; so, you say, `Please tell me what the sunshine is, and I shall listen very carefully'. But, I say, `Go to the door and open it, you will know without asking'. If you have really listened to that, you will have gone to the door and seen the sunshine. That is the beauty of listening so completely that you have already opened the door and are in the sunshine.

The lady asks, `If I want to help somebody who is in sorrow, is that ambition?' If somebody is unhappy and he wants to become happy, is that ambition? Is truth ambition? I am unhappy, my father or my son is dead, I am starving, I am unhappy. To be in sorrow, to have pain, to have physical pain, to have emotional pain, inward pain or outward pain, the loss of somebody whom I think I love - all this we know. What is the process of becoming happy? Do you understand? Can I ever know when I am happy? I can only know when I have been happy. I can never know the moment in which I am happy. I can only know happiness when it is finished, like pleasure. At the moment of pleasure, you are not aware of it. Only a second after, you say `How happy, pleasurable it was'. You say, `I am suffering, I want to end my suffering'. Is that ambition? That is a natural instinct of every person; that is not ambition. So, is it not the natural instinct of all of us not to have fear, not to have pain physically or emotionally? But life is such that you are constantly receiving pain. I eat something and it does not suit me, I have tummy ache. Somebody says something to me and I get hurt. I want to do something which somebody prevents; and I feel frustrated, I feel miserable. So, life is constantly acting upon me, whether I like it or not - which is hurting, which is frustrating, which is reacting as pain. Is it not so? So what I have to do is to understand it. But I run away from it.

You see, what happens is: I suffer inwardly, I go to somebody, I run away from my feeling of suffering - I read a book or turn on the radio, or I go and do puja. All these are indications of my running away from suffering. If you run away from something, obviously you do not understand it. In looking at it, you begin to understand the problem involved in it, and the search for the understanding of the problem is not ambition. But it will become ambition when you want to run away from it, when you cling to it, when you fight it out, when round it you gradually build theories and hopes. So, in a more subtle way, the thing to which you begin to run, becomes important. The very thing becoming important is the self-identification with it, the identification of yourself with it, yourself with your country, with your position, with your God; and this is a form of ambition.

December 23, 1952